Welcome To CS My Way
Welcome to this exciting new space—CS My Way—where you can learn from the best in the industry and get ahead in Customer Success and beyond.
Each week, I engage in conversations with top executives — Chief Customer Officers, VP/Head of CS, founders, and CEOs. Together, we discuss how they drive success for their customers.
💡I always learn a lot from these exclusive interviews, packed with massive value, practical examples, key takeaways, and best practices from each leader.
I hope they’ll inspire you to build world-class CS organizations and accelerate your career in Customer Success and beyond.
Today we explore all things Customer Education and its critical importance for CS in today’s most innovative businesses.
So excited to bring you my latest conversation with Jill Favro Sawatzky, Chief Customer Officer at Thought Industries, one of the world's leading online learning platforms.
Thank you, Jill, for accepting my invitation.
The stage is yours!
P.S. Want to share your own story? Fill out this form and I’ll get back to you over email.
About Thought Industries
“At Thought Industries, we're all about making external training modern and engaging for customers. “
We provide a platform where companies can create interactive online courses and training for their customers. It's like building a personalized classroom in the digital world, tailored just for their needs.
A major use case for us is companies training their customers on the products they’ve bought.
Whether it's a new software or a complex service, we make it easier for them to understand and use it to its full potential.
This way, companies using Thought Industries see happier customers, getting more value from their purchases.
So, in short, we're helping businesses teach their customers in a fun and effective way, turning them into savvy users and fans of their products.
We have many customers, too, that are large training companies.
The learning IS their product.
So for them, the front-end learning experience is a huge priority for how they present themselves in the market.
They're able to use Thought Industries to customize and deliver a personalized, industry-leading learning product.
About You
Becoming Chief Customer Officer at Thought Industries has been quite the adventure!
My journey has been fueled by my passion for customer success and a relentless pursuit of learning.
I started my career in Project Management in Professional Services at IBM.
Fortunately, I was lucky enough to have an opportunity to transition into a role where I could help existing customers achieve value over their entire journey.
“These were the early days of Customer Success, and I built the first CS team at IBM when it was not very widely known yet.”
The field of CS evolved over time as did my career as I stepped into roles that challenged and expanded my understanding of how to drive customer value.
After IBM, I moved into Director and VP roles at Citrix, PROS, and Commvault.
“I've always believed in the power of education as a cornerstone of customer success, and this belief has been a guiding light in my career. “
Professional Insights
As the Chief Customer Officer, my role is multi-faceted and dynamic.
It's not just about overseeing a team.
It's about nurturing a deeply customer-centric culture.
“I'm responsible for ensuring that every interaction our customers have with our platform adds value to their experience“
This means constantly evaluating and evolving our approach to customer education.
We work closely with our product development teams to ensure our offerings meet the changing needs of our clients and keep an eye on the market to anticipate trends.
It's a balancing act between being a visionary, a strategist, and an executor.
Organizational Structure
The structure of our Customer Experience (CX) team is designed to build collaboration and agility.
Here’s how we are structured:
It includes:
Professional Services,
Customer Success,
Support,
and Customer Education.
It also includes a new team, which we call the Technical Investigations Team. This team ensures that nothing falls through the cracks for our customers.
Their job is to find solutions for customer challenges that may be outside the scope of any of the other teams.
The entire CX team is the heartbeat of our organization, ensuring that every client gets the most out of our platform.
Our team works in close concert with our product development, sales, and marketing teams, forming a cohesive unit aligned with our goals and strategies.
This structure ensures that we're quick to respond to market changes, agile in our approach, and always focused on delivering the best possible experience to our customers.
Company Specific Insights
In my role, I've focused on demonstrating the direct correlation between customer success and the financial health of Thought Industries.
“Implementing strategies that improve customer engagement and satisfaction have a ripple effect that leads to increased customer loyalty, higher retention rates, and ultimately, a positive impact on our revenue.”
My approach involves not only providing top-notch customer education but also using data to track and measure the success of our initiatives, ensuring that we're always moving the needle in the right direction.
The Evolving Landscape in Customer Education
It’s been a constant evolution, and since I joined Thought Industries, I've witnessed significant shifts.
There's been a move towards creating more interactive, personalized, and user-centric learning experiences.
Adapting to these changes has meant investing in technology that allows us to deliver adaptive learning paths and leveraging data analytics to get deeper insights into user engagement.
It’s not just about keeping up with trends.
It's about leading the charge in redefining how customer education is perceived and delivered.
Driving Customer Adoption
Strategies for Adoption
It’s about understanding the customer's journey and crafting experiences that resonate with them.
It starts with quickly getting our customers to value with streamlined onboarding.
Think of this as the express lane to getting customers up and running.
It’s about making the onboarding process as smooth and intuitive as possible. This includes clear guidance, step-by-step tutorials, and readily available support.
We also tailor our educational content to meet the specific needs of different user groups.
It’s not a one-size-fits-all approach; it’s more like having a custom-fit suit.
We make sure that the content is relevant, engaging, and directly applicable to the tasks our customers want to accomplish.
“Once customers have mastered the basics, we introduce them to more advanced features.”
It’s like showing them the hidden gems of our platform.
As we educate them on these features, we help them get even more value out of their investment.
Focusing on reducing the Time to Value and implementing these strategies had significant improvements in customer adoption and satisfaction.
“Customers who see the value in our platform quickly are more likely to engage deeply and become long-term users.”
Balancing Personalization and Scale
Thought Industries focuses on personalized learning experiences. How do you find the balance between personalization and scalability, especially when serving a diverse range of customers, from midmarket enterprises to Fortune 500 companies?
Finding the sweet spot is one of the biggest challenges in customer education.
We address this by leveraging technology such as AI-driven recommendations, which allow us to offer personalized content at scale.
Our scalable content management system can serve a large number of customers, from mid-sized businesses to large enterprises, efficiently.
This approach makes sure that each client receives a learning experience that feels just right for them, while we keep the ability to serve a large and diverse client base.
Success Stories
Can you share a specific success story where the implementation of customer education significantly contributed to a client's growth, retention, or overall success?
There are many success stories at Thought Industries, but one that stands out involves a software company that recently experienced transformative growth and retention by implementing our platform.
They offer both free and paid content across many of their different customer groups, from large enterprises to individual consumers.
They also offer a huge range of formats in their training program - everything from virtual labs to certifications.
After tailoring the learning paths and content to their specific audiences, the client saw a significant increase in user engagement.
This not only contributed to their immediate success in terms of user satisfaction and retention but also played a critical role in their overall market growth.
That’s the power of effective customer education and its impact on business success.
Implementation Challenges
What are some common challenges organizations face when implementing customer education initiatives, and how has Thought Industries addressed them?
I’ve got a long answer for this question because it’s such an important part of my role.
Here are the biggest ones that I’ve observed:
Content Relevance
Challenge: Keeping educational content relevant and up-to-date.
Our Approach: Continuously updating courses and materials based on industry trends and user feedback from one central asset manager.
Learner Engagement
Challenge: Maintaining engagement across diverse learning styles.
Our Approach: Using interactive content, gamification, and personalized learning paths.
Scalability
Challenge: Expanding customer education for a growing user base.
Our Approach: Employing a platform designed for effortless scalability, accommodating any number of users across many segments.
Measuring Impact
Challenge: Demonstrating the business impact and ROI of customer education.
Our Approach: Leveraging analytics tools to track engagement and link education to customer satisfaction and product usage.
System Integration
Challenge: Integrating the education platform with existing business systems.
Our Approach: Offering flexible APIs for smooth integration with clients' tech stacks.
Globalization and Localization
Challenge: Localizing content for global audiences.
Our Approach: Adapting content to meet cultural, linguistic, and regional needs.
We help our customers address these challenges by staying adaptive, data-driven, and customer-focused.
Impact on Retention
You've led customer success teams at various companies. How does a strong customer education strategy contribute to customer retention, and what key lessons have you learned in this regard?
A well-crafted customer education strategy is critical.
It's about empowering users with the knowledge they need to make the most of your product, thereby fostering a sense of loyalty and satisfaction.
From my experience, continuously updating content and integrating user feedback are key.
It's also important to keep the content relevant and engaging, ensuring that users feel a continuous connection with the product and see the value in sticking around.
Thought Leadership Through Education
Customer education can position a company as a thought leader. How does Thought Industries leverage its education platform to establish thought leadership and differentiate itself in the market?
Our own Thought Industries Academy is a key example of what a robust education platform can look like.
This is achieved by providing cutting-edge educational content, sharing industry insights, and fostering a vibrant community of learners.
As we do so, we not only demonstrate our expertise in the field but also create a space where ideas and best practices can be exchanged, further cementing our role as innovators and leaders in the customer education space.
Our CEO, Barry Kelly, along with Daniel Quick has also written a book on customer education called “The Customer Education Playbook: How Leading Companies Engage, Convert and Retain Customers”.
It’s a great example of how Thought Industries provides thought leadership to the industry.
Personalization Beyond Content
Personalization is often associated with content. Can you share examples of how Thought Industries personalizes the entire customer education experience, beyond just content delivery?
We create a learning experience that adapts to the individual needs and preferences of each user.
This includes adaptive user interfaces that adjust based on user behavior, customized learning paths that are tailored to specific roles and objectives, and interactive elements that cater to different learning styles.
As we personalize the entire experience, we ensure that each user gets the most relevant and effective learning journey possible.
Evaluating Customer Education Platforms
Having been involved in implementing learning systems, what advice would you give to organizations looking to evaluate and choose a customer education platform that aligns with their business objectives?
Selecting the right customer education platform is key.
“My advice would be to look for a platform that aligns well with your specific business objectives. Consider factors like scalability, the ability to deliver personalized content, and ease of integration with existing systems.”
The user experience is vital, so a platform that is intuitive and can be white-labeled for every customer is a must.
Additionally, robust analytics features are essential to track the effectiveness of your educational content and understand user engagement.
Building a Learning Community
Establishing a community around training and certifications is one of your major goals. How does Thought Industries foster such communities, and what role do they play in Customer Success?
We place a strong focus on building learning communities.
These provide a space for users to interact, share experiences, and learn from each other.
“We facilitate this by offering forums for discussion, promoting user-generated content, and organizing events that bring our users together.“
These communities are more than just a place for learning.
They're a source of ongoing engagement and play a key role in the overall success of our customers.
Transitioning from On-Premise to Cloud
You've dealt with transitioning customers from on-premise to cloud-based environments. What complexities arise in this transition, and how does customer education help address these complexities?
The transition can be complex.
“The main challenges are often around data security concerns, integration with existing systems, and ensuring a smooth user experience.”
The best approach to easing this transition involves having comprehensive education and support.
You need to provide resources that guide users through the transition process, address common concerns, and help them understand the benefits of moving to a cloud environment.
As you demystify the process and offer hands-on support, you can make the transition as seamless as possible.
Continuous Learning for Customer Success Teams
In your experience, how do you ensure that customer success teams continuously learn and adapt to new trends and best practices in the customer education space?
We foster a culture of continuous learning through regular training sessions, encouraging attendance at industry events, and facilitating internal knowledge-sharing sessions.
We have quite a number of individuals who have extensive experience in the industry and are members of the greater customer education community. They lead both internal and external thought leadership sessions for us.
As we stay on top of the latest trends and best practices in customer education, our teams are better equipped to meet the evolving needs of our clients and deliver exceptional service.
The Role of Customer Success Managers
Evolution of CSM Roles
With your extensive experience in leading large customer success teams, how have you observed the role of Customer Success Managers evolve, especially in terms of their increasing or changing involvement in customer education initiatives?
The role of Customer Success Managers (CSMs) has evolved significantly, especially in the context of customer education.
CSMs are increasingly becoming integral to education initiatives, playing a pivotal role in understanding customer needs and ensuring that the educational content is aligned with these needs.
“They act as a bridge between our customers and our educational offerings, ensuring that the content is not only relevant but also effectively addresses the specific challenges and objectives of each customer.”
This evolution reflects the growing importance of education in customer success and the need for CSMs to be well-versed in the educational tools and strategies that can drive customer engagement and satisfaction.
About The Current Job Market & Layoffs
What's your take on companies laying off Customer Success pros primarily?
“It’s very short-sighted and the opposite of what companies should do in this economy. Keeping existing customers is extremely important when it’s so challenging to acquire new customers.”
Customer Success is not just about keeping customers happy.
It's about ensuring that they are getting the most value from a product or service, which in turn drives retention and growth.
“In my view, companies should view Customer Success as a critical investment rather than an expendable cost.”
It's essential to maintain a strong Customer Success presence, especially in challenging economic times, as they are the ones who help retain and grow the customer base.
How do you ensure CS has a seat at the board level?
It starts by demonstrating the direct impact of Customer Success on the company's bottom line.
“This means not just talking about customer satisfaction but showing concrete metrics — like retention rates, customer lifetime value, and the role of customer success in driving upsells and expansions.”
It's about framing Customer Success as a strategic partner in the company's growth, not just a support function.
“As you align your Customer Success strategies with broader business goals and show measurable results, you can make a compelling case for its strategic importance at the highest levels.”
Lessons from Your Previous Roles
Reflecting on your experiences at Commvault, PROS, and other organizations, what valuable lessons have you brought to Thought Industries regarding structuring and leading successful Customer Success and education programs?
One key lesson I've brought to Thought Industries is the importance of aligning Customer Success and education programs closely with business outcomes.
It's about understanding that these programs are not just about teaching customers how to use a product but about helping them achieve their business goals using our product.
This requires a deep understanding of different customer segments and designing tailored programs that address their needs.
Another key lesson is the importance of data in driving decisions and measuring success.
Using data to refine and optimize our programs continually ensures that we are always delivering value and staying relevant to our customers' evolving needs.
Key Metrics for Customer Education
Beyond traditional CS metrics, what KPIs or other metrics do you find most insightful in measuring the success of customer education programs?
Beyond traditional customer success metrics like NPS (Net Promoter Score) or CSAT (Customer Satisfaction Score), several other KPIs are insightful in measuring the success of customer education programs.
These include:
completion rates of training modules
the time taken to complete courses
engagement scores (like quiz scores, and forum participation)
and the application of learned skills in practical scenarios, demonstrating product adoption.
Another critical metric is the correlation between education engagement and customer health scores.
This can indicate how well-educated customers are better able to utilize and benefit from the product, and even renew with your company at a higher rate than untrained customers.
Tracking these metrics helps us understand the effectiveness of our educational content and its impact on overall Customer Success.
Your Tech Stack
We use different tools and platforms to drive CS.
Our tech stack includes our own platform as a learning management system (LMS) at its core.
It’s complemented by CRM tools like Salesforce and Gainsight for customer data management.
We also leverage data analytics platforms to gain insights into customer behavior and preferences.
For communication and collaboration, we use tools like Slack and Zoom, which help us stay connected with our customers and teams.
Additionally, we incorporate feedback tools to gather real-time responses from our users, enabling us to make swift adjustments to our strategies and content.
About AI
AI has enormous potential in customer education and the Thought Industries platform.
AI can be used to generate learning content quickly.
My perspective is that AI will make a bigger impact by improving personalized learning experiences significantly.
As it analyzes user data, AI can tailor educational content to individual learning styles and needs, making the learning experience more effective and engaging.
It can also help in predicting which customers might face challenges and proactively offer them additional resources.
“In the broader context of Customer Success, AI can provide predictive analytics that can guide our strategies in customer engagement and retention.”
Personal Insights
What books or resources have had a significant impact on your thinking or approach to your career?
The book “The Effortless Experience: Conquering the New Battleground for Customer Loyalty” by Matthew Dixon has been out for more than ten years but I find that the insights in the book are more relevant than ever today.
The “Customer Success Economy” by Nick Mehta and Alison Pickens is a great reference book to keep on the shelf regarding CS.
Captivating Podcasts
I'm an avid listener of podcasts like "Masters of Scale" by Reid Hoffman and "HBR IdeaCast" from Harvard Business Review.
They provide great insights into business growth and leadership.
I also love the “Hidden Brain” podcast on NPR for the incredible scientific information that they share about human behavior. It’s very relevant to both work and personal life.
On social media, LinkedIn is my go-to for industry insights and networking, while X (Twitter) helps me stay on top of real-time trends and discussions.
Leadership Philosophy
My leadership philosophy is:
“Empathy, transparency, and a growth mindset.”
I believe in leading by example and creating an environment where team members feel valued, heard, and motivated to grow.
Empathy guides my interactions, ensuring I understand the team's challenges and aspirations.
Transparency in communication builds trust and alignment.
And fostering a growth mindset encourages innovation and continuous learning within the team.
Preferred Quote
One quote that resonates deeply with me is:
"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
-Mahatma Gandhi.
It reminds me of the importance of personal accountability and the impact individual actions can have in shaping our environment, both professionally and personally.
Hobbies
Outside of work, I have a passion for road cycling.
It's not only a great way to stay fit, but it also offers a sense of freedom and adventure, as well as being a social network.
Plus, there’s beer afterward!
Additionally, I love reading — it's a perfect way to relax and expand my horizons.
These hobbies provide a balance to my professional life, allowing me to recharge and come back to work with fresh energy and ideas.
Closing Thoughts
I'd like to emphasize the importance of continuous learning, both personally and professionally.
In a world that's constantly evolving, staying curious and open to new ideas is key.
“I encourage everyone to embrace change and view challenges as opportunities for growth.”
And remember, the journey is as important as the destination — enjoy the process and the learnings it brings.
And That’s It
I hope you enjoyed my interview with Jill as much as I did interviewing her.
Want to share your own story for a potential spotlight opportunity?
Fill out this quick form and I’ll get back to you over email.
I’ll speak to you in the next edition.
Cheers,
Hakan.
